Working with a model

[dolgachov]

No, not weirdo... it's just what society has become, and I, for one, am just careful.

i guess if i had photography as a job i would maybe act the same way, Sean.

[Syates]

ohoho! and what kind of pictures i shoot, lady? please elaborate? WHAT KIND OF PICTURES I SHOOT?

Lev, stop shouting, and btw everybody here knows what kind of pictures you shoot > Artistic&nude is most of your portfolio. So please people calm down or this thread gets a 24h rest  SY

[dolgachov]

Artictic nude is MOST of my portfolio? you're serious, Sybille?

[Syates]

Artictic nude is MOST of my portfolio? you're serious, Sybille?

Yes, but with nude I don't mean necessarily without cloths I mean this "erotic-sex-appeal" feeling that MOST of your images have. Lev, that is in no way a negative remark, quite the opposite actually  SY

[dolgachov]

i really need an explaination to "I know that kind of pictures you shoot". what KIND of pictures i shoot? less than 10% of my portfolio contains any nudity. so what KIND of pictures i shoot?

considering nudity.

there's a definition for nudity. it's not "sex-appeal".

nude  (nd, nyd)
adj. nud·er, nud·est
1. Having no clothing; naked.
2. Permitting or featuring full exposure of the body: a nude beach.
3. Law Lacking any of various legal requisites, such as evidence.
n.
1. An unclothed human figure, especially an artistic representation.
2. The condition of being unclothed.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nudity

i never EVER had most of my images nude. i could have 110% of my pictures nude and would be proud of it, but i have less than 10% of my images containing nudity and about 85% of portfolio not content filtered on most modest stocksites. so what KIND of pictures i shoot? and why one starts to point at ME when i ask where she took nudity from to use in this discussion?

any nudity, Talya, is inside your mind now. more than 90% of my work contains no nudity so things i say IN GENERAL are not any possible way connected to any nudity. please never ever point a finger at me with "i know what kind of pictures you shoot". if you think most of my pictures are nude, you have no idea what kind of pictures i shoot.

[Talya]

once more: where i live it's absoluthely ok to be touched by professional working with you as a subject. doctor, hairdresser, fitness instructor, make-up artist, photographer, trainer, lector, teacher. to be touched professional and friendly way.

Ok. I do not expect photographer who makes passport photo to touch me, at least not without asking first. Not here in USA, not in Russia. I may say nothing but I doubt I will evere come again. I do not expect my karate sensei to touch me and somehow he never did in three years. There is very limited list of classes where I would expect teacher to touch me without asking.
I brought boss here not because he was a boss but because he really, truly did not believe that not everybody is OK with his friendly "touch". Hopefully it is not your case. Probably you are really a person whom everybody trusts and does not mind to be touched. Just in case you will understand me wrong again: this is a good thing in my book to be such person. Maybe I totally wrong and thing are totally different in Estonia. But in Russia people tend to underestimate discomfort they cause by interventing in personal space or touch somebody even in professional and friendly way. I guess because of so many years of using overloaded public transportation 

[Talya]

Lev, I'm really sorry. I did not mean anything wrong. I will put it in capital letters, if needed. I really like your photos. I think you do great job, very creative, artistic, technically perfect. I think your subject is great, your models are beautiful, I enjoy looking at your photos, including nude ones.

Let roll back. You asked what possible can happend and I give you an example what possible can happend in your case. 10% is more than enough for that. If you were shooting crocodiles alive I would also think you should not touch your model but for completelly different reason. 

Another example, not photography but very professional. Our family doctor refused recently to see my ten years old son for annual check-up without my presence. They have a police which forbid a physician to be left alone with kid. If they have to they must have nurse at the same room all the time. He said he has a friend who was sued by a mother who based her story on 8-yearold son complains. his friend did not lost practice completelly but they had to move and whole thing cost him a fortune. As my physician said this is only one case between hundreds of doctors he knows but he does not want to take chances here.

[dolgachov]

i was born in Russia, i grew up in Russia and i teached people practical psychology in Russia. i never experienced touch issues in Russia. i touched people and people touched me. no real difference with Estonia. i see friends - we touch and shake hands. Estonia is much more "cold" than Russia. Still Estonia is no problem to touch.

i studied matrial arts too and was touched by my teachers on regular basis. i was also touched by my teachers in school and University, both in Russia and Estonia. i was touched by my psychology trainers. i'm touched by people in my shop every day. i walk by, people touch my hand and ask "can you please help me?". it's absoluthely natural and ok. touch is a way of communication. i meet my models or friends i didn't see for a lont time - we hug. once i meet Italian people - we hug and kiss if we have common friends. i had very few times in my life i told "don't touch me" to those who i really disliked, mostly drunk strangers on parties. and i can't remember single time i've heard "don't touch me". well, maybe few times from my girlfriends or wifes when they were in dramatic mood like "nobody likes me, i hate the world, please don't touch me, please don't look at me, i'm awful", but it really has nothing to do with touch.

if you'll be on SX conference in Moscow this spring i will make a show for you. i'll touch 30 or 50 people in a row in a front of you. in Russia you're talking about. nobody will have a problem with it. or even better - i'll ask people and 50 people in a row will touch me. perfect strangers. i can also touch SX people from Hungary and America in a front of you and you'll see it will not make any objection. i hope you'll see it's ok and has NOTHING to do with any harrassment.

if Sean, Frenk or Bobby will come, i will touch them and let them touch me.

i will not touch you, but once you'll feel it's ok for you to touch me, i'll say thank you when you'll do ;]

***

still you didn't answer the question , what KIND of pictures i shoot.

[Syates]

If you were shooting crocodiles alive I would also think you should not touch your model but for completelly different reason. 

Talya, that absolutely made my day! SOOO funny, ROFL!!!! SY

[Talya]

Erotic, at least good part of them. I may intent something else, I do not know, but this is an impression I and all other people I discussed your photos with got from your portfolio.

[dolgachov]

Lev, I'm really sorry. I did not mean anything wrong. I will put it in capital letters, if needed. I really like your photos. I think you do great job, very creative, artistic, technically perfect. I think your subject is great, your models are beautiful, I enjoy looking at your photos, including nude ones.

Let roll back. You asked what possible can happend and I give you an example what possible can happend in your case. 10% is more than enough for that. If you were shooting crocodiles alive I would also think you should not touch your model but for completelly different reason. 

Another example, not photography but very professional. Our family doctor refused recently to see my ten years old son for annual check-up without my presence. They have a police which forbid a physician to be left alone with kid. If they have to they must have nurse at the same room all the time. He said he has a friend who was sued by a mother who based her story on 8-yearold son complains. his friend did not lost practice completelly but they had to move and whole thing cost him a fortune. As my physician said this is only one case between hundreds of doctors he knows but he does not want to take chances here.

1. if i was working with tigers or crocodiles, I WOULD touch them. sure and 100%. it's maybe hard to believe for you or Sybille and will make you laugh but I WOULD. how can you really make something good with such a borders. animal trainer could be affraid to touch tiger and still be trainer, but will never go big with such a limits. same applies to photography. i never shoot other people realities - i create realities. and if i need a touch in photographic reality i create - sure i will touch. how can i create within such a limits? it would be ridiculous for me to be limited with "no touch" stuff in art creation. touch is nothing comparing to psycological connection we have with model when working really good.

i said and i repeat it doesn't apply to commercial stuff guys were talking about. if i'd shoot hired models or if i'd shoot as a hired master i would most probably act within "ask before touching" rule. it only applies to "please make some art with me, Mr. Dolgachov" situations, but i only have this kind of situations in my work.

2. scary story about the doctor. i can also give a lot of scary stories of famous people being sued for fake rapes. so not being famous is much safer too. one chooses a life. to be famous or to pretend he's safe. to touch tigers or to be nothing more than average animal trainer. to call police when being blackmailed or to be scared and search for money he thinks he should pay to criminals. life is simple. 

[dolgachov]

Erotic, at least good part of them. I may intent something else, I do not know, but this is an impression I and all other people I discussed your photos with got from your portfolio.

once more, 85% of my pictures are not content filtered on most modest stocksites. so why you pointed your finger at me with "i know what KIND of pictures you shoot" when i asked where did you take an idea we are talking about nudes here?

[Talya]

To Lev
There is a difference between being scared and buying an insurance, do not you thing?

And I do not understand why you are drawing line between you and other photograthers. In both cases it is a business. You did not get pay for shooting, but you sell them late. Models do not get money but they get great photos they probably would never get otherwise. I do not understand why your rules would suddenly change if you will get paid or pay somebody.

BTW, I got master degree in pschycology from russian university and I can recall only two special trainings where touching was involved.


*****

Lev:

1. to get real good is ALWAYS a step out of comfort zone.

2. becouse the way we work is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. traditional way is to "keep your distance", my way is to "break the borders".
i'll clarify "paid" issue you don't undrestand yet. once one is paid, the other one virtually starts baing a "boss" you mentioned in your harrassment memories.

3. you've got master degree in psychology and have a problems with people touching you? amazing.

[Talya]

Erotic, at least good part of them. I may intent something else, I do not know, but this is an impression I and all other people I discussed your photos with got from your portfolio.

once more, 85% of my pictures are not content filtered on most modest stocksites. so why you pointed your finger at me with "i know what KIND of pictures you shoot" when i asked where did you take an idea we are talking about nudes here?

15% is enough to give an example. You take some nude photo with some models. And the rest of them are still erotic even if they are not filtered. It is not necessary.
You know, I have a question too.  Why did you get so mad about this issue? is it something wrong with shooting nude? Just curious.

[dolgachov]

And the rest of them are still erotic even if they are not filtered.

1. so you pretend to know what i shoot better than i do?

You know, I have a question too.  Why did you get so mad about this issue? is it something wrong with shooting nude? Just curious.

becouse you mixed the things i say IN GENERAL with nudity. becouse i was talking about touching. and you mixed it with nudity. and i didn't say anything about shooting nudes. involving nudity makes an impression i touch nude models the way i described my work in general wich would be ABSOLUTE LIE. working with nude models, wich is less than 10% of my work is a separate issue where absoluthely other rules applied. noone said "nude" before you did it here. so i'm asking again - who gave you a right to say here you know what i shoot when you really have no idea what i shoot?

am i stepping up with "i know what you snoot?" am i? am i connect the way you work with making an impression you work with nude models same way you work in general? am i telling you "and rest of them are still the way i say they are" about your works?

you have no idea how i work when i shoot nudes. i never told you how i work with nudes. never ever bring nudity issue into discussion any more when talking about me and my way of working unless we are really speaking about nude photography. you say "15% is ok to give an example". what #@#$$ example? am i giving any "examples" connecting you with touching nudes? i don't. you say "personal space"? well it's you who's really touching personal space here by mixing nudity with the way i work first, saying you know what KIND of pictures i shoot better than me second and saying 10% of my portfolio is enough to think the things i say in general are connected with nude photography.

never. ever. do it. anymore. period.