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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 27, 2007, 03:35:29 am »
SY, lev said he would not touch me so we are not going to kill each other, common 
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Основной форум / Re: Ребята выручайте ;) на меня хотят подать в суд!
« : Декабря 27, 2007, 03:32:55 am »тебе или мне может быть смешно или лень, а его реально преследуют там. поэтому я дал именно ему совершенно конкретные советы.Я, честно говоря, не вижу что его преследуют. Какие-то умники решили, что могут срубить толику денег по-легкому. Можно, конечно. устроить крестовый поход на умников, но это надо очень хотеть. Можно просто послать. Я соглашусь, в принципе, что если посылать вежливо, могут решить, что ты боишься. Лично я, тем не менее, предпочту вежливо, мне довольно пофиг что они там думаю насчет моих страхов. Кроме того, я не считаю, что какой бы то ни было фотограф вправе распоряжаться моим изображением на свое усмотрение. Что там российское законодательство на сей счет думает, я не знаю. Мне кажется ни одной из сторон не удастся выиграть иск в суде при данном раскладе. Короче забить и все.
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 27, 2007, 03:16:18 am »15% is enough to give an example. You take some nude photo with some models. And the rest of them are still erotic even if they are not filtered. It is not necessary.Erotic, at least good part of them. I may intent something else, I do not know, but this is an impression I and all other people I discussed your photos with got from your portfolio.once more, 85% of my pictures are not content filtered on most modest stocksites. so why you pointed your finger at me with "i know what KIND of pictures you shoot" when i asked where did you take an idea we are talking about nudes here?
You know, I have a question too. Why did you get so mad about this issue? is it something wrong with shooting nude? Just curious.
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 27, 2007, 03:07:22 am »
To Lev
There is a difference between being scared and buying an insurance, do not you thing?
And I do not understand why you are drawing line between you and other photograthers. In both cases it is a business. You did not get pay for shooting, but you sell them late. Models do not get money but they get great photos they probably would never get otherwise. I do not understand why your rules would suddenly change if you will get paid or pay somebody.
BTW, I got master degree in pschycology from russian university and I can recall only two special trainings where touching was involved.
*****
Lev:
1. to get real good is ALWAYS a step out of comfort zone.
2. becouse the way we work is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. traditional way is to "keep your distance", my way is to "break the borders".
i'll clarify "paid" issue you don't undrestand yet. once one is paid, the other one virtually starts baing a "boss" you mentioned in your harrassment memories.
3. you've got master degree in psychology and have a problems with people touching you? amazing.
There is a difference between being scared and buying an insurance, do not you thing?
And I do not understand why you are drawing line between you and other photograthers. In both cases it is a business. You did not get pay for shooting, but you sell them late. Models do not get money but they get great photos they probably would never get otherwise. I do not understand why your rules would suddenly change if you will get paid or pay somebody.
BTW, I got master degree in pschycology from russian university and I can recall only two special trainings where touching was involved.
*****
Lev:
1. to get real good is ALWAYS a step out of comfort zone.
2. becouse the way we work is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. traditional way is to "keep your distance", my way is to "break the borders".
i'll clarify "paid" issue you don't undrestand yet. once one is paid, the other one virtually starts baing a "boss" you mentioned in your harrassment memories.
3. you've got master degree in psychology and have a problems with people touching you? amazing.
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 27, 2007, 02:46:06 am »
Erotic, at least good part of them. I may intent something else, I do not know, but this is an impression I and all other people I discussed your photos with got from your portfolio.
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Основной форум / Re: Ребята выручайте ;) на меня хотят подать в суд!
« : Декабря 27, 2007, 02:39:05 am »1. заплатить деньги "потерпевшим"4. Сесть ровно и ничего не делать.
2. спрятаться. лучше в Сочи. до 2014-го вряд ли найдут. а там не попадаться в объективы камер.
3. убить себя об стену.
это всё - если ОЧЕНЬ СТРАШНО ИДТИ В МИЛИЦИЮ.
А страшно это про меня? Я такого не говорила. Лень, скорее.
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 27, 2007, 02:24:54 am »
Lev, I'm really sorry. I did not mean anything wrong. I will put it in capital letters, if needed. I really like your photos. I think you do great job, very creative, artistic, technically perfect. I think your subject is great, your models are beautiful, I enjoy looking at your photos, including nude ones.
Let roll back. You asked what possible can happend and I give you an example what possible can happend in your case. 10% is more than enough for that. If you were shooting crocodiles alive I would also think you should not touch your model but for completelly different reason.
Another example, not photography but very professional. Our family doctor refused recently to see my ten years old son for annual check-up without my presence. They have a police which forbid a physician to be left alone with kid. If they have to they must have nurse at the same room all the time. He said he has a friend who was sued by a mother who based her story on 8-yearold son complains. his friend did not lost practice completelly but they had to move and whole thing cost him a fortune. As my physician said this is only one case between hundreds of doctors he knows but he does not want to take chances here.
Let roll back. You asked what possible can happend and I give you an example what possible can happend in your case. 10% is more than enough for that. If you were shooting crocodiles alive I would also think you should not touch your model but for completelly different reason.
Another example, not photography but very professional. Our family doctor refused recently to see my ten years old son for annual check-up without my presence. They have a police which forbid a physician to be left alone with kid. If they have to they must have nurse at the same room all the time. He said he has a friend who was sued by a mother who based her story on 8-yearold son complains. his friend did not lost practice completelly but they had to move and whole thing cost him a fortune. As my physician said this is only one case between hundreds of doctors he knows but he does not want to take chances here.
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 27, 2007, 02:00:41 am »once more: where i live it's absoluthely ok to be touched by professional working with you as a subject. doctor, hairdresser, fitness instructor, make-up artist, photographer, trainer, lector, teacher. to be touched professional and friendly way.Ok. I do not expect photographer who makes passport photo to touch me, at least not without asking first. Not here in USA, not in Russia. I may say nothing but I doubt I will evere come again. I do not expect my karate sensei to touch me and somehow he never did in three years. There is very limited list of classes where I would expect teacher to touch me without asking.
I brought boss here not because he was a boss but because he really, truly did not believe that not everybody is OK with his friendly "touch". Hopefully it is not your case. Probably you are really a person whom everybody trusts and does not mind to be touched. Just in case you will understand me wrong again: this is a good thing in my book to be such person. Maybe I totally wrong and thing are totally different in Estonia. But in Russia people tend to underestimate discomfort they cause by interventing in personal space or touch somebody even in professional and friendly way. I guess because of so many years of using overloaded public transportation
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 26, 2007, 11:18:02 pm »1. this is relevant. one giving advices SHOULD have a good experience. one without experience can assume, but never give advices.I do not speculate on subject, for example, how to make model trust you. If you will need a lawyer to defense you in sexual harassment case will you ask him how big his experience in photography is? I'm not a lawyer and I'm not giving a legal advice, just another example.
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and Talya, where from NUDITY appeared in this discussion? we didn't discuss nudity here. nudity is something YOU just bringed in here. once we will discuss nudity i will share my experience about shooting nudes. we didn't discuss any nudity here.I know that kind of pictures you shoot.
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 26, 2007, 10:56:33 pm »I tried once to explain my first boss that I do not like him touching me. In friendly way. No use.
sure i would. believe me i would. i guess where i live it's a major difference. it's absoluthely ok here to be touched by professional working with you. doctor, hairdresser, fitness instructor, make-up artist, photographer, trainer, lector, teacher.
Lev, this is simply not true.
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 26, 2007, 10:26:01 pm »Talya, how big is your experience with real models studio work?How does that relevant? You assume for some reason that photography is something unique with no relations to the rest of the world. I honestly believe you know other way to discuss any subject than "shut up you do not have an experience".
I was curious about sexual harassment crime at some point and that made me follow some cases.
Yes, I did sign a real model release with witness, as a photographer, as a model, as a witness and as a parent. More than once for each. Witness signature is the reason why I said I doubt that it will stay in court. No, you do not have to have a witness every minutes of your life but your relations with model is a business (does not matter if nobody get paid immediately). I would say anybody should better have a witness of any business done around nudity just to be safe.
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Основной форум / Re: Ребята выручайте ;) на меня хотят подать в суд!
« : Декабря 26, 2007, 10:01:48 pm »откуда такая фантазия?Вот такая вот фантазия. Фотограф не может знать какой, самый невинный с его точки зрение, способ использования фото может нанести мне вред. Есть наиболее вероятные, он их избегает. Но при любом использовании без разрешения берет на себя риск. О каких всех правах можно говорить? Почти тоже самое, что машину в пьяном виде водить - пока я правил не нарушила, полиция меня останавливать и проверить не имеет права и не останавлвает. Но вот если нарушу и поймают, мало не покажется.
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два - в милицию надо идти железобетонно. вымогателей надо привлекать к уголовной ответственности. всегда. "сил и нервов" отнимет суд. а обращение в милицию ничего не отнимет.Я, конечно, давно не ходила в российскую (мы о какой стране говорим, уточнить бы) милицию и честно будут рада если все так изменилось, но я прям таки вижу как в милиции принимаю подобное заявление о вымогательстве без затрат нервов. Если это действительно так, ну можно подать заявление. Дальше что? Дальше точно без денег и нервов не получится. И какой смысл?
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Photography / Re: Working with a model
« : Декабря 26, 2007, 09:42:53 pm »
I guess, you may let your assistant go to a bathroom, but for the rest of time assistant must be in the studio.
She does not need to scream. She will leave your studio drank (or even get drank after as you let to know everybody that alcohol is not forbidden in your studio), obtain some record (police record for minor crime, for example). Then when one of her pictures appear in glamor magazine, she will say that your force her to take nude (or close) photo, then sign a release. Even if nothing of this will stay in court (but it may), this is not the kind of publicity you want. I do not see how money paid/received make any difference in this situation.
She does not need to scream. She will leave your studio drank (or even get drank after as you let to know everybody that alcohol is not forbidden in your studio), obtain some record (police record for minor crime, for example). Then when one of her pictures appear in glamor magazine, she will say that your force her to take nude (or close) photo, then sign a release. Even if nothing of this will stay in court (but it may), this is not the kind of publicity you want. I do not see how money paid/received make any difference in this situation.
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Основной форум / Re: Ребята выручайте ;) на меня хотят подать в суд!
« : Декабря 26, 2007, 09:20:49 pm »
Прав на публикацию без релиза у автора нет, во всяком случае если к этой публикации хоть как-то можно привязать извлечение выгоды. И таки случаи нанесения вреда совершенно невинным путем известны. Американские школы и другие организации письменные разрешения на публикацию любых детских фотографий ежегодно просят не просто от нефиг делать.
Подача заявления в милицию - это overkill на мой взгляд. Получить с этого ничего не удастся, сил и нервов отнимет, зачем? Пугнуть, конечно, можно, чтобы отстали.
Подача заявления в милицию - это overkill на мой взгляд. Получить с этого ничего не удастся, сил и нервов отнимет, зачем? Пугнуть, конечно, можно, чтобы отстали.
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Основной форум / Re: Ребята выручайте ;) на меня хотят подать в суд!
« : Декабря 26, 2007, 06:45:50 pm »готовьте адвокатаЧего вдруг? Я думаю, что берут на понт, не более того. Извиниться еще раз пять и прекратить всякие контакты. Чтобы получить выплаты за моральный вред надо чтобы это моральный вред был причинен. Фотография хорошего качества, с беспроблемным сюжетом, выложенная на собственном сайте или яххе, таковой причинить может только в очень экзотической ситуации. Не говоря уже о том, что российское (?) законодательство размер таких выплат ограничивает какой-то смешной суммой, ради которой мало кто станет связываться. В общем, продолжать извиняться, ибо поступили все-таки нехорошо, но вряд ли до степени подсудности.