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forum => International forum for English speakers => Illustration => Тема начата: Syates от Ноябрь 29, 2007, 04:13:23 pm

Название: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Ноябрь 29, 2007, 04:13:23 pm
I love apophysis, always use the newest version, great program, but the long render times will kill me one day, does anybody here knows of some tricks to make it quicker? SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Clivia от Ноябрь 29, 2007, 05:33:03 pm
What method are you using now? I know of three, all very different. :)
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Ноябрь 29, 2007, 06:21:45 pm
I just render normally in Apophysis, my standard settings are Quality 4000, Filter Radius 0.4 Oversample, but I do a small test render first to see how it looks. I use Apophysis 2.07beta which is great. SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Clivia от Ноябрь 29, 2007, 11:30:51 pm
I am using version 2.02 (I must update it soon!), but it should be the same. I use similar parameters, but render by using the file/export flame command. It uses a different rendering engine, I am afraid I cannot remember what its called though.You can still select the same parameters. I find the speed and quality is much better than the render to disc command.
Another way to increase render speed is to increase the RAM available. I have 2gig of ram, but would like more. :(
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Ноябрь 30, 2007, 02:23:43 am
I have 1gigRam, so feel fortunate  ;D I used the export command in a previous version and it was faster, but know I can't find it anymore, if I hit crtl+x it tells me: "The flam3-render.exe renderer could not be found at a specified location. Please check your settings in Options>Paths>Export renderer." Eh, what does this mean? SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Clivia от Ноябрь 30, 2007, 11:37:33 am
I have upgraded my version to check this. It means you have to download the flam3 renderer from www.flam3.com. Click the download tab, then click the Windows zip version.
The bad news is that it kept timing out on me before the download had finished. I am in work now, so I will take a longer look later when no one is going to look over my shoulder!
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 02, 2007, 02:40:00 am
I have downloaded it fine, but where do I put it now? SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Clivia от Декабрь 02, 2007, 11:53:54 am
So far so good! I was able to download it this morning.
Put it into your Apophysis file for safe keeping.
Open Apophysis and go to Options then click the Paths tab.
See the line for Export renderer. Using the little file symbol at the side of that path. navigate to where you put Flam3, and click on Flam 3 render.
Its done!
It opens a command window to render. I tried it on a small render, and it worked fine.
I found a tutorial about using Flam3 to render animations. I don't do animations, but I would love to learn how. Ignore the installation bit at the beginning, we just did that!
http://electricsheep.org/apophysis/ (http://electricsheep.org/apophysis/)
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 03, 2007, 01:56:28 pm
First fractal is rendering, a monster that would normally take several days, I keep you posted how it goes, SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: sshaw75 от Декабрь 03, 2007, 03:42:19 pm
hmm tried one like this last night, ended up with a black 3000x3000 square lol
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 03, 2007, 03:44:23 pm
hmm tried one like this last night, ended up with a black 3000x3000 square lol

Ooops, I only hope that don't happen with mine, did you figured out was the problem was? SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Clivia от Декабрь 03, 2007, 07:09:09 pm
I just tried another render to test this. I saved it as a .png file with a transparent background. It worked fine. What did you save your black render as?
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: sshaw75 от Декабрь 04, 2007, 03:27:16 am
hmm I forgot about changing to png, I didn't notice the default was jpg.  Maybe that was it, will have to try it again tonight
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: sshaw75 от Декабрь 05, 2007, 03:59:13 am
well I tried again last night setting it to a png file, this time I got a 3000x3000 empty square.  Not quite sure what is happening.  I set the path to the flam3render.exe file, and use the same settings I usually do i rendering.  I do notice that the .flame file is being saved in the same location as the blank files.  When I export flame on small files (the standard 555 by whatever size) it seems to work ok?  Maybe this is a ram issue.  Guess I'll stick to the longer save to disk way
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 06, 2007, 10:27:13 pm
Did you discover what went wrong? After 3 days my monster has finished and looked nice (I rendered as a jpg), hope you find a solution soon, SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Clivia от Декабрь 06, 2007, 11:16:12 pm
3 Days!!!
I just rendered on 5000 by 5000, and it took 8 hours. How big is your monster?
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 07, 2007, 01:54:55 am
Only 3200x4267, but really 3 days on a computer with 1024Mb ram, SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: sshaw75 от Декабрь 07, 2007, 02:26:23 am
I really am not sure why it is doing it, are there any other settings that need to be changed as well?
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Clivia от Декабрь 07, 2007, 11:45:11 am
It just happened to me. A file I set rendering last night came out blank. I have not changed anything at all, so I don't know why this happened. I will search around this weekend and see if I can find out.
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 07, 2007, 12:37:56 pm
Same here, I set a second fractal to render and all I had this morning was a nice pure white background. Haven't changed any settings between the renders neither...  :'( SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: sshaw75 от Декабрь 07, 2007, 03:37:04 pm
OK so I am not loosing my mind! haha
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 07, 2007, 04:32:02 pm
OK so I am not loosing my mind! haha

No, you are in good company *sigh*, why does it work one time and the next not ???? SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 07, 2007, 09:30:18 pm
Ok, here is the monster that worked, SY:

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/luckyoliver/public/LO/-f/ra/LO-fractal_firework-5721696.jpg) (http://www.luckyoliver.com/photo/5721696/fractal_firework?loaf=hospitalera)
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: sshaw75 от Декабрь 08, 2007, 12:54:43 am
Very Cool
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 08, 2007, 12:57:25 am
Very Cool

Thank you! But this was the only one that worked with ctrl+x render/ export function, all others either turned out a blank square or something that didn't look at all like the intended image, Clivia where are you???? SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Декабрь 19, 2007, 02:01:25 am
Clivia, I had to go back to normal -and extremely long- render times, as the export thingie screwed too much fractals up, any findings so far? SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: nicemonkey от Январь 21, 2008, 02:09:22 am
Apophysis looks cool but its Windows only. Does anyone know a good fractals software for the mac?
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 02:15:15 am
Check out http://fractalarts.com/ASF//Download.html there are some mac freeware programs listed ;-) SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 21, 2008, 11:55:07 am
well i encountered that thread, downloaded a program.

Is it that easy? - you run the program, it gives you a great abstract image with no real effort on your part - and you upload it and watch as money run to your account.

where is the catch? ???

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/12/invictus99.0/0_7270_d896f3b2_L.jpg)

I've just made this and i think it's cool, i like it. Is it legal to put in on sale in microstocks?
Do i actually have a copyright for that image?


Or many other people who run this program can render the same image using this script and it will become a scandal - like one we've seen on Shutterstock when one guy used another guy's vector?


Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 01:50:50 pm
well i encountered that thread, downloaded a program.

Is it that easy? - you run the program, it gives you a great abstract image with no real effort on your part - and you upload it and watch as money run to your account.

where is the catch? ???

I've just made this and i think it's cool, i like it. Is it legal to put in on sale in microstocks?
Do i actually have a copyright for that image?

Or many other people who run this program can render the same image using this script and it will become a scandal - like one we've seen on Shutterstock when one guy used another guy's vector?


OK, let me answer the questions one by one:

"Is it that easy? - you run the program, it gives you a great abstract image with no real effort on your part - and you upload it and watch as money run to your account. where is the catch? ???"

Also if you can be lucky and get a nice fractal by just playing around it normally takes a bit more effort to create a good selling fractal. And the catch is the render time, to get a good quality fractal with Apophysis my render time averages 24h per fractal. That means after having "played" with the flame, changed it with some scripts, colored and adjusted it - one of my computers will be occupied to render the final jpg at a high resolution for a whole day. That is for me the biggest catch and the reason why I am looking to move my fractal portfolio more towards better paying sites/ midstock/ alamy.

"I've just made this and i think it's cool, i like it. Is it legal to put in on sale in microstocks?
Do i actually have a copyright for that image?"

You are right it is a cool fractal but:
a) even at this size I can see "fractal noise" = stray pixel from a hasty render and most sites would reject it because of this.
b) I really think it would be worth to do a high res render with this and perhaps play a bit with the coloring, but yes, I think it could sell well!
c)It is absolutely legal to sell images created with apophysis as Microstock or elsewhere, whilst the software itself is copyrighted, it states somewhere in the tos that you hold the copyright for your flames/ images and can do as you please with them.

"Or many other people who run this program can render the same image using this script and it will become a scandal - like one we've seen on Shutterstock when one guy used another guy's vector?"

They are not so easy to copy! That you will notice when you have forgotten to save your flame and then try to re-create it, very, very difficult! And no, there will be no scandal as the flame from where you render the final jpg is like a raw file that proves your ownership. I did two flame exchanges so far with on line friends, but I would do them only with people I "know"  and trust, in one case I could find the flame my exchange partner wanted and we completed the exchange, in the second case I couldn't find the flame (it was an older fractal of mine, before I had a system to save the flames correctly) and I deleted the flame I was send ;-) General tip: As I am working mostly commercial I only have programs, scripts, brushes etc that I can use commercially (including microstock) on my computer. If I find something cool on the internet I check the TOS, if it is kosher to use for commercial purposes I keep it if not it gets deleted asap. That way I avoid to make a mistake in the future when I don't know anymore where this brush/ script etc came from and how I can use it. So, yes, go ahead with fractals but be careful they can get very addictive, but if you have a spare computer, no reason why not - Welcome to the fractoholics! SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 21, 2008, 02:10:18 pm
Wow! You spent so much typing time to explain me this things thank you!

Unfortunately I've lost settings for this cool image above and i only have 1000 x 1000 pix render, and yes it's noisy as hell.

In last 30 minutes i've made a couple decent pics, one of them is this

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/13/invictus99.0/0_7274_9c723d4c_L.jpg)

and it struck me that Today when i made search by the word Fractals i saw something similar, and i did it second time and stunningly it is Your image that is looked so similar

(http://69.90.174.246/photos/display_pic_with_logo/57169/57169,1180132590,3.jpg)

I've just purchased some studio lighting, but I have not made a single good shot to put on stocks - and here comes a free applet which gives me a stockworthy images at no cost. The world is turned upside down  ;D

PS If this work proves profitable - sure i'll buy another computer, a stronger one, but why so long times? I've just started rendering this cute fir tree again at 2000 by 2500 pix , quality 400,  and it says it is 10 minutes left. There must be some point that i miss.
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 02:17:49 pm
Wow! You spent so much typing time to explain me this things thank you!

Pleasure, but that is what this forum is all about: Helping each other to get better in our art and broaden our horizons! And yes, the fractal tree is mine (*cough* please look here: http://photographicfreedom.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=337.0, don't remove the image, we just "pretend" I posted it ;-)

So, yes, if you have a reasonable speedy spare computer - go ahead and if you have any further questions, please ask! One tip, don't try to submit fractals to Istock, they will get rejected in all cases *sigh* SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 21, 2008, 02:23:09 pm
If this work proves profitable - sure i'll buy another computer, a stronger one, but why so long times? I've just started rendering this cute fir tree again at 2000 by 2500 pix , quality 400,  and it says it is 10 minutes left. There must be some point that i miss.

I respect this SS requirements, i only wonder how can they punish the ones who do this forbidden hotlinking. Obviously there is no tool for that. It' only our good will to follow their request but not to obey an order. am i right?
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 02:26:06 pm
First of all don't buy another new computer, try to get an used one nobody wants anymore for a couple of quid. And regarding the long render times, just look at your fractal at 100% when it is finished. SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 21, 2008, 02:44:53 pm
no i'm not so rich to run for a nearest computer shop after this first fast results.  ;D

interesting, but i think i can put what i'vejust rendered for review. i don't see any noise or drawbacks that can make it be rejected

this is 100% crop
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/11/invictus99.0/0_7275_3a960c01_L.jpg)

well anyway fir time has passed - it's hearts time that is on!
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 03:02:56 pm
Looks good, some variations are "less noisy" then others. I normally render a smaller test render with the quality settings I want to use for the final render and then do the full version if all is ok. Settings in question are (very general):

Gamma: decreasing gamma decreases noise but also makes the image "darker" when rendering over black and less detailed when rendering over white. All in general, each flame is different!

Quality I use normally 4000, as increasing it makes the render time only slightly longer but gives better -quality

Filter radius I use normally 0.4, that works the best for me.


Over sample Here is the catch, the higher the number the smoother and more detailed the fractal, but render times go up like a rocket with this one. My ideal setting is 4, but that means normally a looong render time.

Tip: Tick the box "limit memory usage to" and set what you have available as memory if it wouldn't go through at once. SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 21, 2008, 03:13:48 pm
i'm next to putting my first fractals batch to Shutterstock, and this is only after several hours after i stumbled upon this thread this morning. (It's 2.13 pm here in my area now) I can't believe it. May be a rejection will be a cold shower  O0

Sybille - you are fantastic explaining me this program setings before i even bother you to help me with this!  ;)
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 03:26:26 pm
Keep us posted how it goes, SS is pretty good for fractals! SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 21, 2008, 09:35:30 pm
Keep us posted how it goes, SS is pretty good for fractals! SY

can't wait to see today's batch results! ;)
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 09:43:24 pm
Nor can I  ;D it is always exciting when a new "fractoholic" joins us! SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 09:47:58 pm
Oh, and before I forget it, check out Apo 3d hack (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=127736) for the ultimate addiction! SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 21, 2008, 10:02:48 pm
i guess i'll need a mainframe station to render them ALL before death does us apart!  ;D
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 21, 2008, 10:11:57 pm
Only if you try fractal footage  ::) http://footage.shutterstock.com/video.html?id=49783

SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 21, 2008, 10:15:51 pm
Only if you try fractal footage  ::) http://footage.shutterstock.com/video.html?id=49783

SY

 ::) WHAT PROCESSING TIME IT TOOK TO MAKE THAT?

unbelievable! I always wanted to become somebody like Walt Lucas  ;D
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: nicemonkey от Январь 21, 2008, 10:47:14 pm
Wow great clip Sybille. I haven't really messed around with fractals before and didn't realise you could make moving images. My girlfriend always says that I spend too much time on the computer...she really isn't going to be happy now I have found fractals! (I will point her in your direction!)

Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: sshaw75 от Январь 22, 2008, 12:10:37 am
Oh they are addicting as hell... Most of my shutterstock port is fractals.  Also did 2 vid clips, but they got way to long to render so I kind of left them for now.

Sybille, what size do you render?  I used to do 3000 x 3000 then resize to 2000x2000 at 300dpi.  But when I jump the oversample up to 4 it requires over 2 GB of ram.  So I have been dropping them to about 2300x2300.  Does the limit memory work and just add to the render time?  I can do a 3000 x 3000 Filter 0.4 Quality 4000 and Oversample 0.3 in a little under 4 hours
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 22, 2008, 02:10:19 pm
I have first results.... ALL Rejected  ;D (Thankfully the reason is mostly keywords and only couple of pics are noisy.... )

I think it's a good start  ;D ;D ;D
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 22, 2008, 02:18:10 pm
 :o Sorry about that, key wording fractals is quite a problem because they can be so much different things to different people. SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 22, 2008, 02:50:31 pm
Never mind rejections! it's for my own pleasure

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/14/invictus99.0/0_72f1_16eda7a0_L.jpg)

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/12/invictus99.0/0_72f0_d67861b8_L.jpg)
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 22, 2008, 03:13:42 pm
Only if you try fractal footage  ::) http://footage.shutterstock.com/video.html?id=49783

SY

 ::) WHAT PROCESSING TIME IT TOOK TO MAKE THAT?

unbelievable! I always wanted to become somebody like Walt Lucas  ;D

As it is footage the images are smaller I used 720x480 but as you need 30 frames per second, I think it took me several days to render the whole lot. But I am still waiting for my first footage sale :-( SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 22, 2008, 03:16:07 pm
Wow great clip Sybille. I haven't really messed around with fractals before and didn't realise you could make moving images. My girlfriend always says that I spend too much time on the computer...she really isn't going to be happy now I have found fractals! (I will point her in your direction!)

Perhaps you should point her in my hubbies direction, he is complaining about the same and the two could then happily commiserate whilst we can get things done on the computer! SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 22, 2008, 03:20:13 pm
Sybille, what size do you render?  I used to do 3000 x 3000 then resize to 2000x2000 at 300dpi.  But when I jump the oversample up to 4 it requires over 2 GB of ram.  So I have been dropping them to about 2300x2300.  Does the limit memory work and just add to the render time?  I can do a 3000 x 3000 Filter 0.4 Quality 4000 and Oversample 0.3 in a little under 4 hours
Why do you downsize them??? I render at 3200x3200 normally and yes limiting the memory allows you to render large files and "just" adds time. SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: nicemonkey от Январь 23, 2008, 12:30:14 pm
I hadn't thought of doing any fractals before I read this thread but after reading it I got inspired to try it. Apophysis isn't on a mac so I sought out another piece of software, I settled on "Quadrium 2" it got the best reviews.

So some 48 hours later my girlfriend has left, my eyes are bleeding and I haven't got anything I truly like! Don't get me wrong I love it and will keep plugging away till I have cracked it but being from an Illustration background I am used to moving things (physically on the screen) and just clicking an object to change its colour, as far as I can see with the fractals software that I have used, its a lot harder to achieve what you have in your mind and just have to keep tweaking until what you are working on looks pretty.
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Syates от Январь 23, 2008, 01:19:16 pm
Sorry about your girlfriend! I am on a pc so I can't help you with Quadrium2, perhaps you should start a new thread and look if anybody out there can give you some starting help. SY
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 23, 2008, 02:17:24 pm
I hadn't thought of doing any fractals before I read this thread but after reading it I got inspired to try it. Apophysis isn't on a mac so I sought out another piece of software, I settled on "Quadrium 2" it got the best reviews.

So some 48 hours later my girlfriend has left, my eyes are bleeding and I haven't got anything I truly like! Don't get me wrong I love it and will keep plugging away till I have cracked it but being from an Illustration background I am used to moving things (physically on the screen) and just clicking an object to change its colour, as far as I can see with the fractals software that I have used, its a lot harder to achieve what you have in your mind and just have to keep tweaking until what you are working on looks pretty.

With fractals it's obviously heads or tails game. the best image i've had in last three days was actually the very first image (i've shown it here- it's a spiral). And i think it makes this occupation more fun than a work! Try apophosis on any pc - i already tried several other - and refused them after short seeing inside of them.  :)
Название: Re: Apophysis Help Please
Отправлено: Sundance от Январь 24, 2008, 02:40:46 pm
Wow! They took a big batch of fratals, including the above two images! But also they took 3 of 4 of my very first home studio photos. Both things are great!!!!!!!!